1. Obama is a Muslim sympathizer of some sort because he was wearing “Muslim Clothing”. (Actually it was tribal garb, and members of that tribe are Muslims, but they’re also Africans. That’s like saying a shirt and tie is “Mormon Clothing” because missionaries wear them.)

2. Obama interfered with the politics of a sovereign country by campaigning for one candidate in a disputed election. A goodwill appearance by an African-American (truly) Senator with the head of his father’s tribe is similar to John McCain going to Scotland and appearing with the First Minister. It doesn’t mean that McCain is supporting that person for election.

I think reasonable people can disagree to what extent we ought to try diplomacy versus other diplomatic means. However, to liken Obama’s stance that we ought to at least talk with Iran and other pariah states to Neville Chamberlin is just heated rhetoric.

For example, here’s Obama’s actual position on Iran from his website:

Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress.

That position is not capitulation, it ’s a reasonable try to normalize relations with a country that acknowledges the reality on the ground, which is that the War in Iraq has been a dream come true for Iran, and greatly strengthened their position in the region.

I do appreciate your respectful debate.

When I asked “Why didn’t Obama talk to Odinga and get him to stop the violence?” It was rhetorical. I think when Senator Obama says he will talk to our enemies it is simplistic and naive. I think he is a smart man and understands that talk alone will never appease despots in Iran, N. Korea and Syria. I think this is an attempt to gain votes and nothing more. Thats politics I understand, I just dont accept it. We talk to Iran, N Korea all the time, even groups like Hammas. We just don’t elevate them to a level that makes them appear legitimate, and therfore powerful in the eyes of our enemies who recruit evil terrorists.

The example in Kenya proves the point. Obama did try to talk, why it did not work we will never know, its a shame it didnt work, many people lost their lives. What we saw was there are power hungry people who are willing to unleash violence to obtain their goals, right while talking. I wish it were a simplistic world where all it takes is talk, that’s 1938 thinking. We all know what happened then when Neville Chamberlin came back from Germany waiving a piece of paper that Hitler signed and declaring “We have peace in our time”

Too bad the world leaders just can’t work it out on a blog.

From tiberius:
“Why didn’t Obama talk to Odinga and get him to stop the violence?”

You claim this statement is untrue.

So, apparently, according to you, the true statement is : Obama talked to Odinga and got him to stop the violence?

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that I don’t believe that statement is true. Am I correct?

Now, you didn’t just do what the liberals are very well known for doing which is to pick only one portion of a statement (not the whole truth now) and spin it so you can call those mean ‘ol conservatives liars now, did you?

Naaawwwwww.

And if Obama didn’t get anything accomplished, he doesn’t deserve the puff piece saying how great he is for making a phone call.

That’s all I’m sayin’.

Perhaps Kibaki did not want to talk to Senator Obama because he was upset that Obama denounced his corrupt administration during his last Kenya trip.

Tiberius: saying that someone should have called implies that he didn’t, at least in the world where I live, and that’s the fact to which I was referring, which I thought was clear from the context. Apparently not.

Of course, I don’t dispute that things are bad in Kenya. I’m just disputing your ham-fisted attempt to somehow hang that on Barack Obama.

And yes, it is true that Obama did not single-handely reform Kenyan politics, where tribal allegiances going back to the beginning of time make it perhaps a tad difficult for a US Senator with no official diplomatic portfolio to make a huge impact. Is that your lame point? That Obama tried and failed to change the course of events in a foreign country?

If so, consider this: Since his broadcast was on the US-controlled VOA, and because the White House didn’t denounce him for conducting unauthorized diplomacy, I assume that his attempt to calm things down in Kenya was sanctioned by and coordinated with the State Department. I think you need to look there for reasons that our diplomatic efforts in Kenya have failed.

>>He has apparently tried to get in touch with Mr Kibaki,
>>too, but without success.

Thats the point NO SUCCESS. Maybe Kibaki fainted when Obama called and was unable to come to the phone? Maybe the fact that Voice of America just started to broadcast in Swahili in Kenya and no one heard it?

http://blogs.rnw.nl/medianetwork/voice-of-america-expands-swahili-broadcasts-to-kenya

By the way Rottenchester I did Google that fact as you suggested. I am not a regular visitor of Radio Network Worldwide in the Netherlands.

Are you telling me its not a fact when I say that the ODM used violence? Is it a fact that Odinga leads the ODM? Is it a fact that Obama talked to them and failed? It is a fact that he was able to do nothing about it, even though he has Kenyan heritage and Odinga is his cousin (claims to be, not refuted by Obama).

Yes facts are stubborn nasty thing.

My point was obvious, it is Obama’s judgment and ability to talk violent people out of doing their evil deeds. He says he will talk to people and get them to put down their weapons and stop doing violent things. He couldn’t do this in a Democratic country like Kenya, where he has connections. How is he going to do it with countries like Iran and North Korea?

I remember back when those who called themselves “Conservatives” would actually advance arguments and talk about real issues. Instead we get garbage like your last two posts, all ad-hominem, sourced on rumor and innuendo.

quote:

In between campaign stops, Mr Obama is trying to help. He broadcast an appeal for calm on Voice of America. “Despite irregularities in the vote tabulation, now is not the time to throw [Kenya's] strong democracy away,” he said. “Now is the time for this terrible violence to end.” He spoke with Mr Odinga by telephone, urging him to meet Mr Kibaki without preconditions to effect a reconciliation. He has apparently tried to get in touch with Mr Kibaki, too, but without success.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10498963